New NWN spells:

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New NWN spells:

Post by Reverend Red on Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:22 pm

This thread is for a review of the PRC hakpack spells. I'll gather the results in the last post. Here goes:

PRC pack:

Spell Fixes: Everything else works nicely, but the Earthquake DC's a borked and the Crushing Hand nerf stinks.

Going Through Spells (Alphabetical) (asterisk signifies a good/decent spell option) (only new spells touched):

-Aberrate: Pointless due to Barkskin
-Absorb Strength: Useless.
-Abyssal Might: Pointless, the bonuses are too small and the spell level too high.
*-Acid Orb: Decent attack spell
-Acid Storm: Another pointless AoE damage spell
-Addiction: I hope we won't implement addiction mechanics. Even if we did, spell barely usable.
*-A. Scorcher: Barely worth the casting time.
-Alter Self: Gain Natural AC. Whatever.
*-Amber Sarcophagus: Powerful, mechanically interesting.
-Angry Ache: Without Save the spell would be a good pick. As is, pointless. (When it becomes powerful enough, the enemies will resist it)
-Animalistic Power: Ranger spell, for others, useless.
*-Animate Objects: Depending how this works, exactly, may be worth looking into. I suspect a laghog.
*-Antimagic Field: Depending on implementation, may be a great addition or a total waste of space.
*-Apocalypse from the Sky: Probably crap because of implementation. If not, hilarious!
-Arcane Eye: Does a familiar's job without downsides.
-Arrow Split: Cute. Useless.
-Arrow of Bone: Level 7? Give me a break.
-Arrowstorm: Embarassing.
*-Augment Familiar: This makes a familiar a much more viable a scout.
*-Avascular Mass: Wonderful. Super powerful against strong single opponents.
*-Avasculate: To hell with Harm. This is great against massive monsters.
-A. Radiant Burst: Boring mechanically and requires the rubbish Sanctified addition.

From A: Acid Orb, Azganna's Scorcher, Amber Sarcophagus, Animate Objects, Antimagic Field, Apocalypse from the Sky, Augment Familiar, Avascular Mass and Avasculate are even worth looking into. Especially Avasculate and A. Mass become interesting options especially after the incoming Harm nerf. The Sarcophagus is very interesting mechanically. Antimagic Field may add much to the game.

-Baleful Polymorph: Useless.
*-Baleful Transposition: Good addition, great Get Out of Jail Free-card.
-Beltyn's Burning Blood: Stupid waste of space.
*-Benign Transposition: Enjoyable, but it should probably just be combined with the Baleful version.
-Bestow Wound: Whatever.
-Striking Fist: Get out of here.
*-Bigby's Tripping Hand: Duration is bad, utility good.
-Blade of Blood: Another stupid addition.
-Blade of Fire: Seen this already. If it stacks with the other two, it's completely unfair.
-Blast of Flame: Pointless.
-Bless Water: No.
*-Blessing of Bahamut: Reduce spell level to 2 or 1 and it's a good choice for a pally.
-Blinding Glory: Absolutely embarassing.
-Blood of the Martyr: Ridiculously bad.
-Bloodfreeze Arrow: Dammit, people, you don't need to rub it in, how bad rangers are, ok?!
*-Blur: Welcome to funkyville!
-Bodak Birth: Useless, possibly Death, No Save.
-Boneblade: With the new magic weapon reasoning, unfair.
-Boneblast: Rubbish.
*-Break Enchantment: Certainly necessary.
-Brilliant Emanation: Poop.
-Brilliant Energy Arrow: More poop. What's with the ranger hate?
-Burning Bolt: We have magic missile already, thanks.

From B: Nothing remarkable here, except that the Transposition spells may provide a good adventuring mechanic for the future but may be subject to exploitation.

-Call Dretch Horde: Embarassing.
-Call Faithful Servants: Permanent summons, ugh...
-Call Lemure Horde: More of this poop.
*-Calm Emotions: Some utility.
-Celestial Blood: Catastrophically bad.
-Chaav's Laugh: Sheesh. Get it out of my eyes.
-Channeled Pyroburst: Hey wow, it's like Fireball, but a level higher!
-Charm Person or Animal: Urrrgh.
-Clarity of Mind: What a rip-off.
-Claws of the Bebilith: Junk.
-Claws of the Savage: Same thing. Not worth considering.
-Close Wounds: Gahhh.
-Cloud of the Achaierai: Aaand... no.
-Clutch of Orcus: USeless.
*-Cold Orb: Fairly OK.
-Command: Funny, maybe. Otherwise, junk.
-Consecrate: Nothing useful here.
-Convert Wand: Not needed in any way.
*-Conviction: Good.
*-Create Magic Tattoo: Stackable bonuses for 24 hours seems like a decent investment for party play.
-Crown of Might: Horrible.
-Crown of Protection: Likewise.
-Crushing Despair: Nothing here.
*-Crushing Fist of Spite: Oh, we certainly need a damage spell that does 400d6 damage. (yeah, not joking)
-Curse of Impending Blades: Sad.
-Curse of Petty Failing: Sadder.
*-Curse of the Putrid Husk: A very good Save-or-Suck spell.

So, from C: A couple of good spells and a 9th level spell that can be used to deal 400d6 damage, reflex halves.

-Damning Darkness: It's like Darkness, but two levels higher. Poop.
-Dancing Web: 3 levels higher, only targets evil. This is the worst spell I've seen so far.
-Darkflame Arrow: More of this tomfoolery. Why are they insisting on making spells that only affect a single arrow?
*-Death by Thorns: Save to live but still be incapacitated. Not bad at all.
-Deep Slumber: Pitiful.
-Deeper Darkness: It's just Darkness.
-Deflect: Sounds good, until you read the footnote.
-Delayed Blast Fireball: Still sucks.
-Despoil: Horrifyingly bad.
-Detect Chaos, Evil, Favored Enemy, Good, Undead and Law: Just get rid of this idiocy.
-Detect Scrying: Only somehow viable in a game with actual scrying in it. So no.
-Devil's Eye: So, a level 3 Ultravision. Wow. That's dumb.
-Diamond Spray: Pure garbage.
-Dictum: Word of Faith. Unneeded.
-Dimension Door: Not supported by game mechanics. Therefore sucks.
-Dimension Hop: Great, if you want to cheat.
-Dimensional Anchor: Irrelevant.
-Discern Location: Trash.
-Disguise Self: Just no.
-Dispelling Touch: Dispel Magic at a lower level. Next.
-Disrupt Undead: Trash.
-Divine Inspiration: Trade 1,5 STR for +3 to attack. Yuck.
-Divine Protection: Unneeded.
*-Divine Sacrifice: If modified, it'd be a great spell. As is, possibly useful, maybe.
-Dominate Animal: Welcome to Legendary Bearville. No.
-Doom Scarabs: More garbage.
-Doublestrike Arrow: GAAHH! NO MORE OF THIS IDIOCY!
*-Draconic Might: Good team buff.
*-Dragon Ally: Decent at level 13.
-Dragon Cloud: Horrifying.
-Dread Word: Absolutely not worth it.
-Drug Resistance: More of this dope rubbish.

D has been a Dreadfully Demeaning letter with a couple of surprisingly interesting things for several caster types.

*-Ectoplasmic Enhancement: Good, long duration buff for undead. Do PC's get undead?
-Elation: More of this +2 junk.
-Electric Orb. The least impressive of the Orb spells.
-Energize Potion: Geez what a waste of spell slots.
-Energy Aegis: Complete waste.
-Energy Ebb: Almost crosses the "almost somewhat useful, maybe" line.
*-Energy Immunity: Yeap, it's a good spell against thematic areas.
-Energy Surge: Complete poop.
-Enlarge Person: I'd have to see it work before I cast my final word - either way, it's just not that good.
-Evil Eye: Almost fell to this one. It stinks.
*-Evil Weather: Fun, though not really powerful.
-Exalted Fury: Horrifyingly bad for a level 9 spell.
-Exalted Raiment: Could we please just stop it with this Exalted horror?
-Extract Drug: Yeah, more of this useless mechanic.
-Extract Water Elemental: Though hilarious, complete waste of a spell slot.
*-Eye of the Beholder. First I was like "no." Then I realised, that this is a way to conserve spells effectively.
-Eyebite. Why was this garbage even implemented?
*-Eyes of the Avoral: Excellent addition with True Seeing removed.

F: Mostly junk, once again. I'm seeing the pattern.

-False Life: Hell no.
-Fiendish Clarity: A LEVEL SEVEN SPELL FOR ULTRAVISION+SEE INVISIBILITY?!
-Fire Orb: One round is too little.
*-Fire Shield (new): I think it's worth its slot. Why not.
-Fire Trap: Too little. Fails.
*-Fire in the Blood: Hey, neat! Toys for Clerics!
*-Fireburst: Worth it up to level 5.
-Fist of Stone: Let's just keep the wizard in the backround.
-Flashburst: Waste of space.
-Flensing: More waste.
-Flesh Ripper: Junk.
*-Fog Cloud: Possibly means of escape.
-Forceblast: Useless.
-Foresight: I don't know how the hell this is supposed to be implemented. And being immune to flat-footing? Level 9 spell? no.

That's it for F. A couple of sort of nice little tricks. Mostly just rubbish.

-Ghoul Gauntlet: Oh sheesh, what trash.
-Glibness: Absolutely unfair in places, where Bluff means much. Otherwise, not worth it. Either way, this is bad.
*-Glitterdust: This is a maybe. Utterly destroys rogues and shadowdancers, for the cost of one level 2 spell... might be too much.
-Greater Command: Just as funny as Command. But not good.
-Greater Disrupt Undead: Junk.
-Greater Fireburst: Wow, a fireball with an average damage of 1 better per caster level. Only 2 slots higher!
*-Greater Harm: If we're nerfing Harm, I might be inclined to say this is a possibly almost decent spell.
*-Greater Heroism: Should be included, even if not really good. This is because it's directly a buff spell from sorc/wiz to an ally.
*-Greater Luminous Armor: A fairly potent spell for good guys.
-Greater Scrying: Unfeasible.
-Greater Shout: Godawful.
-Greater Teleport: Implementation problems continue.
-Greenfire: Stupifying in its badness.
-Grim Revenge: If implemented well, good. If not, in to the trashbin you go. I suppose the latter.
-Gutwrench: It's not exactly horribly bad, but it's simply not needed.

So, G has a couple of concerning spells. Harm and Glitterdust and Glibness all need to be discussed.

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Re: New NWN spells:

Post by Reverend Red on Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:56 am

-Hail of Stone: How is this supposed to work?
-Halt: Action stealer. Like, steals an action from the caster.
*-Halt Undead: I can see this working.
-Hammer of Righteousness: *bangs head on keyboard*
*-Harm: Tagged simply because it has to be discussed. Again.
-Heal Animal Companion: Pointless.
-Healing Sting: Pointless.
-Heartache: More of this one round rubbish.
*-Heartclutch: A proper Save-or-Die for level 5 is not nearly as bad as you'd think.
*-Heroism: I think we have to take this, if we take the Greater as well.
-Hide from Animals: Escape plan from Legendary Tigers. Or a sneaking way to Harm them. I don't like the option.
-Hide from Undead: Same deal and probably enables cheating.
-Hold Animal: Knock it off with this animal stuff.
-Holy Aura: Offensively stupid.

H is again fairly dead a letter. Harm is again brought to the table.

-Ice Burst: More boring AoE damage spells.
-Ilyykur's Mantle: Dumb and definetly not level appropriate.
*-Improved Mage Armor: Remains useful throughout its career.
-Incendiary Cloud: Yada yada, boring and bad.
-Inferno: Hey, guys, look! The spell is just as bad as in Heroes of Might and Magic III!
*-Insanity: Well, barely worth a spell slot, but the duration is Permanent, which makes it fun and maybe useful.
*-Iron Body: Suffers from high spell level, but confers protection from Dev Crit for a long time.
-Jump: Added here because there's only one J spell. Which happens to blow.
-Kelgore's Firebolt: Same for K.

Again, a fairly whatever a letter (or 3) that only has a hook in Iron Body, which, to be honest, is later on replaced by an objectively better spell.

*-Lahm's Finger Darts: Prepare to be screwed for 5d6 Dex damage (average 17,5), no save, incapacitating yourself. Dragonkiller, at a cost - but only if paralysis at ability score 0 is implemented. If not, get this out of my sight.
-Lantern Light: Dumb.
-Last Judgement: Waste.
*-Legion's Conviction: Definetly should be in!
-Legion's Curse of Impending Blades: About as bad as the non-mass version.
-Legion's Curse of Petty Failing: Petty failing.
*-Legion's Shield of Faith: Definetly yes.
-Lesser Damage Orbs: Useless. Less damage than a Magic Missile and very much resistable damage types.
-Lesser Deflect: Almost humorously bad.
-Lesser Shivering Touch: Horrible.
-Life Bolt: Would be a decent level 2 spell, if it affected more than Undead.
*-Lionheart: Certainly!
-Liquid Pain: Hope this is a mechanic left out. Either way, rubbish.
*-Living Undeath: A level 2 spell to disable Dev Crit? Whoa.
-Locate Creature & Object: I doubt these should be even considered.
*-Lower Spell Resistance: Yes, I suppose it has its uses.
*-Luminous Armor: Somewhat crazy. Dispel Darkness spells, +9 effective AC, spell level 2...

L has arguable material and a couple of must-haves.

-Mantle of Egregious Might: Junkyard material. Stacking rule shenanigans would make it a good level 5 spells. It's 8 now.
*-Masochism: Another topic. Can be used to grant humongous bonuses, which in itself is kind of unfair.
-Mass BS, CG, ES, E, OW and FC: Great! If they were about two levels lower.
-Mass Contagion: More useless fluff.
*-Mass Drown: *possibly* worth a slot. This is only because druids have really bad level 9 slots.
-Mass Enlarge Person: As bad as its little brother.
-Mass Fire Shield: Worse for its level. Much worse.
-Mass Inflict wounds spells: Trash.
-Mass Reduce: Junk.
*-Mass Ultravision: One Darkness is going to officially Destroy a big bunch of enemies.
*-Maze: The INT check DC is huge for all dumber foes.
*-Mirror Image: Good spell but probably a massive lag monster.
-Morality Undone: There just is no way this spell could be good in any other situation than exploiting Alignment Restrictions.
-Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion: Could be fun. Implementation is a problem. Probably a script nightmare.

M is a surprisingly large bunch of problematic material. Mass Ultravision is not potentially game-breaking. It's game-breaking. Masochism and Mirror Image are probably too much for the game to handle properly.

-Nature's Avatar: Great, excellent buff for your animal companion. I'd be all for it if Animal companions didn't suck.
-Nature's Balance: It almost makes me weep.
-Necrotic Awareness: Here's hoping we leave this Cyst stuff the hell away from the mod.
-Necrotic everything: Same
-Negative Energy Ray: Worse than Burst. Which already sucks.
-Night's Caress: Junk, junk, junk.
-Nondetection: If I didn't mention it earlier, scrying mechanics need to stay away.
*-Nybor's Gentle Reminder: Sort of Doom meets Daze, which is actually not a bad use for a level 1 spell.
-Nybor's Stern Reproof: Wait, WHAT? Level SEVEN?! Get the hell our of here.

N is a total failure. Nothing to add.

-Obscure Object: No.
*-Obscuring Mist: Pretty much the same as Fog Cloud.
-Orb of Force: Useless addition.
-Otiluke's Freezing Sphere: More AoE damage spells. Unneeded.
*-Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: Depending on implementation, may be handy or utter waste.

ORS has potential to be a good spell. Otherwise, mostly a dead letter.

*-Panacea: It's good to get a decent negative effect dispeller.
-Pestilence: There is no way this could be useful.
-Phoenix Fire: Because of the mechanics of dying (transported to Fugue plane,) this spell is totally dumb, no matter how you look at it.
-Plague of Undead: For some reason, has no description on the website.
-Polar Ray: A persistent D&D joke.
-Power Leech: Toilet material.
-Pox: And here I thought Polar Ray was funny in its suckiness.
-Prismatic Sphere: Absolutely not worth a level 9 slot.
-Prismatic Wall: Somewhere along the line of Eyes of the Beholder, like almost useful. The wall being a, well, a wall reduces this one, however, to uselessness.
*-Prismatic Ray & Spray: Possibly useful, probably not.
-Protection from Spells: Aaaand no.
*-Pyrotechnics: I believe worth the second level slot.
-Quillfire (included here as the only Q spell): Garbage through and through.

P/Q at least offered one spell we were lacking at a low level and a couple of tear-jerkingly funny spells.

-Rain of Black Tulips: Simply not a level 9 spell.
*-Rain of Embers: Another BIG damage area spell.
-Rain of Roses: Annoying (because of WIS casters having to recomplete their spell books) but bad.
-Rainbow Bolt: Unnecessary and definetly not really good.
-Rainbow Pattern: Probably difficult to implement, and even if successful, a waste of time.
-Rapture of Rupture: Suppose they had to make the bad word play to cover up the suckiness of the spell effect.
-Ray of Exhaustion: I hope we won't be enabling fatigue/exhaustion to the mod.
-Ray of Hope: Another +2 to attack/saves spells. We have enough.
-Reality Blind: Catastrophically bad.
-Recitation: Level 4 Prayer. Bah.
-Red Fester: Useless.
-Reduce Person: Just like Enlarge Person, it's not worth jotting down.
*-Regroup: I think this should be a very viable trick, though prone to abuse.
-Repel Vermin: Can't believe someone actually wrote this in NWN.
*-Repulsion: Worth it against hordes of big, STR-based hulks.
-Resonating Resistance: I see no reason for this to be added.
*-Revivify: Definetly a great excitement-adder to most fights.
*-Righteous Might: It's powerful. Not sure if clerics need more buffs.
-Righteous Smite: AoE damage. How many do we really need?
-Ring of Blades: Only useful for mowing down gazillions of goblins. Do we need this? No we don't.
-Rotting Curse of Urfestra: Landfill material.
-Rouse: Not really useful in NWN.

R: Look at that. Barely anything worth noting.

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Re: New NWN spells:

Post by Reverend Red on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:52 am

-Sarcophagus of Stone: Battlefield Removal against reflex. Could be funny in PvP.
-Scintillating Pattern: Overall useful against minion hordes - but the HD cap removes this benefit. The no save confusion made me consider it.
-Scrying: This is not a mechanic we want.
-*Seeking Ray: For about two levels, this is good, beyond that, probably a riot, even if not powerful.
-Seething Eyebane: Stupid.
-Sequester: Unfair OR useless. Pick one.
-Serpent Arrows: Just when I thought they'd do a decent archer spell, they went ahead and completely ruined it.
*-Serpent's Sigh: While a boring AoE spell, it benefits from situational benefits. This is obviously a sorc spell.
-Shadow Arrow: I think my eyes are bleeding.
-Shadow Spray: More rubbish to throw in the pile.
*-Shield Other: Even with the footnote, this is a great combination with high HD summons.
-Shivering Touch: If the system for losing ability scores didn't suck, it could be worthwhile for eliminating Big dudes.
-Shout: Boring AND useless.
-Shriveling: WHY?!
-Sicken Evil: No-save sicken at Sanctified level 5. YUCK.
-Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt: This is the reason no-one has ever heard of Sinsabur.
-Slashing Darkness: I'm getting really fed up with these spells.
*-Slashing Dispel: Considering it's only one level higher than Dispel, it's a great investment on lower levels, especially in PvP. Against wizards.
*-Sleet Storm: It's a good spell. Very good. But if we plan on implementing Balance, it's Too Good. Because warrior types, sorcerers and whatnot simply do not have the skill points to work with this spell.
-Snare: Wat.
-Snilloc's Major Missile: Egads, didn't we learn anything from IGMS?
-Snilloc's Snowball: Nah, no. Do 5d6 damage to a big group of people or 5d6+5 damage to one?
-Snilloc's Snowball Storm: Yeah, the above pretty much explains this one. AoE that sucks more than Fireball. Theoretically worth it at level 3.
*-Solid Fog: Prepare the melee enemies for a really painful battering.
-Song of Discord: Gods, isn't the bard bad enough?
-Song of Festering Death: read above
-Sonic Orb: Another junk damage spell.
-Sonic Shield: Maybe a decent level 4 spell. But it isn't.
-Sorrow: More minus minor penalty to attack and such. Next.
-Soul Scour: More ability damage annoyance.
*-Spell Turning: Look, I know this does not compete with Mantles, but damnit if it isn't hilarious.
-Spellslayer Arrow: STOP IT ALREADY! AAAARGH!
*-Sphere of Ultimate Destruction: a minimum of 17 rounds of free save-or-dies, that immunity to death magic does not protect against. I think this has potential.
*-Spiderskin: Nice low level buff for all sorts of sneak characters.
*-Spike Growth: (Might be a HotU or SoU spell) Fun, strong and for druids.
-Spores of the Vrock: Horrible.
*-Starmantle: Sorc/wiz buff that may render even more monsters useless against them. In PvP, people will hate you for this.
-Stop Heart: I think it's almost worth it. Well, not really.
-Storm of Shards: More BORING AoE damage spells. BORING.
-Sunmantle: And another whatever buff.
-Sure Strike: Holy moly what a horrible spell. One of the worst so far.
-Sword of Conscience: Badly written on the website. No matter what the writing format is, this is dreadful.

S: I thought I'd never get through this letter. And by gods, this massive heap of rubbish is beginning to get to me.

-Teleport and Teleportation Circle: As mentioned earlier, I do not think this is a viable mechanics.
-Thousand Needles: Wait, level 6? GTFO.
-Tomb of Light: Why would you cast this and not, for example, flesh to stone?
*-Tongue of Baalzebul: If we're increasing social skill importance, this is a fun little buff for that.
-Touch of Idiocy: yeah, no.
-Touch of Juiblex: Adds nothing to the game.
*-Towering Oak: Might become a cornerstone for improving the Ranger.
*-Treeshape: Included simply because of RP potential. Otherwise pretty much dung.
*-True Resurrection: While a great spell, I prefer the current Nordock set-up.
-Twilight Luck: And no.

T probably has the best ratio so far.

-Undetectable Alignment: Adds nothing to the game. Really.
-Unheavened: +4 to saves against Good Outsiders' spells? uh-huh.
-Unliving Weapon: Exploding zombies I'm all for, but they should definetly be better than this.
-Unyielding Roots: GREAT tanking spell. At say, level 5. Now, it's 9.
-Utterdark: This is really embarassing. Level 9 Darkness?

Damn U gives us not one good spell.

-Vile Death: No spell should grant permanent bonuses.
-Viscid Globe: This is preposterously bad.
-Vision of Heaven: This is the Daze cantrip, as a level 1 spell. It seriously is.
-Wall of Greater Dispel Magic: The level is too high, though I think this could possibly be used to really beat the hell out of clerics.
-Water Breathing: While I like underwater adventures, NWN does not support it.
-Wave of Grief: -3 to roll whatever.
-Wave of Pain: Level 6/7 save-or-stun. Pitiful.
-Waves of Exhaustion: Again hoping for fatigue effects to be not included.
-Whirling Blade: Kind of funny. Very much useless.
-Word of Balance/Chaos: We already have Word of Faith.
*-WracK: No matter how mechanically uninspired, this is a decent spell.
-Wretched Blight: Horrible level 7 spell.

V/W are a small symphony of suck.

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Re: New NWN spells:

Post by Tshern on Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:19 am

Didn't read that yet, I am too drunk for that, but I am happy to see some activity here. Tomorrow ought to be a silent day, so I try to give this a small analysis from my amateur point of view. Any activity here should not hurt.

Edit: It seems the spells themselves are not described, just your opinions. That restricts my posting a lot.

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Re: New NWN spells:

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